Okay, so let's kick this off. So, I'm Jean Pillequa, president of SLD, and I'm very fortunate today to have with me Nancy, chief business officer for Souls for Soul, and also John Lee, president of JDL Associates, uh, consultant helping in managing returns. So, thank you very much both of you for joining us today. Thank you for having us. Yes, thank you for having us. So, so Nancy, talk to me a little bit about what your company does and your role in the organization. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. Um, Souls for Souls is a not for-p profofit um that really creates opportunities with shoes and clothing.
So, discarded goods, excess inventory, clothes and shoes that you and I might clean out of our own closets. Um, initiatives that might people might have um to really do just general cleanup. So, used shoes, clothes, new shoes, clothes, and accessories. We take them, we create opportunities, and we also help folks in need. So, it could be in times of crisis, it could be disasters, natural or man-made. Um, and then we also have a program we'll talk about and get into a little bit later where we're creating entrepreneurial opportunities with this product. So, people are actually able to create job opportunities and markets with the product.
Fantastic. I'm looking forward to hearing more about that because I've got a whole group of shoes that my wife wants me to get rid of. So, get right on it. Yes. Yeah. There we go. John, about yourself, your company. What do you do? Yeah. Thanks for um having me on this uh webinar. JP, um I uh run a consulting business that's focused on helping major retailers and brands manage their reverse logistics challenges. uh and a large part of it is customer returns. Up to recently, I was president of the Canadian division of one of North America's largest reverse logistics companies. And prior to that, I've led business units from other major North American reverse operators over the last 50 years.
So, it's it's a topic I'm very interested. So, so I like the term reverse. I mean, that's an interesting instead of saying return, you're saying reverse. So, uh, is that the term the industry is using? Well, it it's what's used in the industry. And if you think of normal supply chain, normal supply chain flows forward and customer returns in other products that aren't sold flow in reverse back from a store. So there's a whole practice area or a whole discipline of reverse logistics and liquidation that really ensures the product does not go to landfills. But but it's it's an entirely separate process and and people that are active in that process call it reverse logistics.
Okay. So pay me a how how big is this reverse logistics and how much of a issue is this? Are we talking small issues or is this financial? What is it? It's a it's a pretty big issue and and you can think of it as um like it's really a customer experience issue that masquerades as a logistics and supply chain problem. But customer returns are really an inescapable part um of the retail customer experience. The key is how do you manage it to make sure that um you minimize the returns flow and and you keep it out of landfill as we were talking about. How big is it? If you combine um US and uh Canada's reported customer returns across the retail and e-commerce landscape, it's about uh US $850 billion in retail value of merchandise.
That's billion with a B um every year. Um, if you look at general merchandise retailers, you know, about 8 to 10% of their sales flow back as returns. If you look at the apparel space, you know, that's as high as 30 to 45%. And that's all product that's flowing back to retail stores when customers return it or online return centers from um online purchases. And does that factor in the cost of travel and shipping and all that or is that strictly the cost of goods? That's strictly the merchandise cost. And the the art of this I is and you're touching on really the beyond the big number the logistical problem is how do you take a supply chain that flows that way and you efficiently flow product back this way so you can get it out of the store, repurpose it.
um and either sell it effectively or get it into one of the kinds of channels that NY's organization uh you know oversees. So when you look at that $850 billion, how much of that ends up in landfills? It's really hard to say, but if you add up it's really hard to say because uh retailers and brands don't many of them don't report publicly what they do with the goods and for good reason because a lot of it goes to landfill. But if you added up all the sales of all the reverse logistics operators, all the liquidation stores in North America, it doesn't come anywhere near a number like 850 billion.
Um, and then you add in the donations and and all of that, there's still a huge problem out there that we really can't size, but we know thousands of truckloads of merchandise are going to landfill every year. and merchandise that's repurposable either by sale or donation. So Nancy, you've you you've identified, you know what, this is a big problem and we have a solution for this problem. So talk to me about souls for soul. Yes. Um you know, it's interesting as John mentioned there there's this sort of unknown out there. you know, brands and retailers have product that is either sitting in inventory that they don't even know is in their inventory at warehouse level that maybe didn't uh sorry, at factory level that maybe did not meet the standards.
And so there's a variety of ways in which we can work with brands and retailers. And what we're trying to do is solve the issue of what do you do with this return product or even excess product? So product that's just unusable for whatever reason to this to this retailer and brand. And so our model is such that we are able to take these goods whether they're used whether they're new repurpose them and extend their life. So we can take them into again relief programs. So if it's new product we then send it all over the globe and in the United States and North America. So if there's need shelters, um you know, communities that are otherwise unable to purchase this product, um disaster relief, that's always new goods that we share with those folks and that's always product that goes to them free of charge, no cost to the to the need.
The other side of it is our entrepreneur program and this is a really fascinating one because it's where we're really extending this circularity economy. So, you know, part of this problem is how do you repurpose these goods, reuse these goods, and there's a variety of ways, right? You can resell them, you can recycle them if it's possible, and then you know what we're doing is really reusing them. So extending their life and we're taking the used goods, so these returns that people have warned or didn't work out for whatever reason, putting them in our entrepreneur programs, and that's where we have folks on the ground in countries like Haiti and countries like Honduras, Guatemala, Eastern Europe, we've got in the Philippines, folks on the ground are taking this product, they're buying it from us at a very nominal cost.
They are then selling it, creating a marketplace for themselves. So marketplace could look anything like a stand in an outdoor market like you might see in a traditional place like that. Could be as sophisticated as maybe local thrift shops. So chains of thrift shops, everything and anything. We partner with another nonprofit called Street Business School where we help educate people on how do you create a business? What does profit and loss look like? What's a margin? How do you resell the product? And it really takes you through the whole gamut of starting a business. And in this way, we're creating long-term job opportunities, right?
So, it's about trying to also create a new economy, new ways for people to create an income. And we've seen populations now be able to bring running water into their villages. I mean, we're talking about rural communities where people otherwise don't have these opportunities. And it's, you know, building actual homes, building schools, providing health care, just the basics of life from a pair of shoes or a piece of clothing. And that's the generality of our model. Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. So you really when you think of it you're you're turning these returns or reverse distribution into opportunities for uh small business owners and helping helping underdeveloped communities.
Um that must be a challenge because you're saying globally. So you know what is what is the traction when you talk to a retailer uh about doing this? you know what's their response to uh so I you know I think on those that you know are really hyperfocused on what do we do with this product and can you take it in bulk manner you know I think what's what differentiates us probably from a lot of other organizations is we have a bit of scale so we have across the United States five what we call regional donation centers we have one in Toron two in in Canada now um a facility in Europe and in Asia.
And so we have the ability to take a product closest to source, which is also something that's really great for people. So, it's attractive to say, okay, not only are we repurposing the goods and doing something good with it, and we're able to help people, but we can also limit this shipping and where the distance is and avoiding those and really being, you know, mindful of carbon footprint of all all the things that are now the buzzwords today that people are caring about. We're able to check off all those boxes and I think that's what's super attractive and it's easy, right? So for a retailer, the other thing that they can do is put one of our collection boxes in their stores.
A consumer comes in, drops off their used goods, and they're happy. They've, you know, done something good with their stuff. The retail retailer benefits because then they have a customer who's going, "Great, now I have space to buy something new." Right. So we're, you know, we're helping in that area, too. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. We had done a study on the circular economy a couple of years ago and um and what came out of that study is that consumers expect the retailer not the manufacturer to be responsible for managing uh products going to the landfills. They view the retailer as the single source of responsibility of minimizing uh products going to landfill.
big up for retailers and when we ask consumers does that drive loyalty if a retailer offered these programs by 80% they said yes and so I can see these retailers seeing this as a as as a both a cost containment opportunity but also as a corporate goodwill you know positioning with consumers when I look Nancy at your business model how much have you diverted I mean you're a you're somewhat of a new company I How long has has Souls for Souls been in business and how much have you diverted in your company? So Souls for Souls has actually been in place for 17 years. So quite some time now. Um and we've diverted nearly 45 million kilograms of product um from from the landfills in that 10 years.
So a lot of goods, a lot of product. Um, you know, we annually probably touch 15 million units approximately between clothes, shoes, and accessories. 15 to 20 million. And I would guess that that's that's just a small fraction of what's going on. It's negligible. I mean, it's, you know, when you think about the numbers that John provided, it's a very negligible part of of what's happening out there. Okay. So, John, talk to me about uh you know, how do you convince retailers that this is a problem and that uh that there's a better solution than than what they're currently doing? Um well, um there's I guess there's a lot of reasons that um uh retailers with really well organized at scale programs would use to explain why they do it.
If you're talking to the CEOs, brand reputation is number one. No one, no retailer wants to be known for sending several hundred to several thousand truckloads of merchandise to a landfill. So, number one for the CEO. A second reason would be financial. Properly organized reverse programs really do generate a positive financial return for the company because 90 to 95% of the returns merchandise that doesn't go back on the shelf because it's what's called retail perfect 90 to 95% can uh be resold and generate multi-million dollar returns. Um sustainability would be the next reason. All retailers report their sustainability metrics and Nancy was mentioning um you know carbon.
So these returns it's very easy to measure how much carbon you're taking out of the air by diverting these to um another consumer in the secondary market. Um then other reasons simplifying store ops you know customer or retailers that don't have big organized programs in fact have a little bit of a nightmare in the back of store with um store employees trying to figure out what to do with all this product. Some will run little clearance centers in the store and all that, you know, creates complexity, it creates cost and it takes employees away from their primary purpose running the store. And and lastly is, you know, merchants.
Um there's often a conflict when retailers don't have an organized program between the store employees who want to see this stuff either sold or donated go somewhere and um and so they set up these little clearance aisles and the merchants who want that shelf space for first quality goods and it's really getting that cost and complexity out of the business. So, you know, if you spoke to retailers, they would say those are all the reasons for for getting a proper program into place. And so, some of these retailers have, you know, introduced these warehouse stores, these uh their deep discount stores, right?
If I look at at um you know, Klehan as being an example and a lot of these fashion retailers, they've opened up these stores that are kind of end of life cycle, deep discount, right? How how how prevalent is that? Is that on the growth curve or are we seeing this as something declining? Is it a knee-jerk reaction? If we're looking at $850 billion in return goods, that would as a retailer, I would look at opening stores that get rid of this inventory cost effectively. There's a there's a couple of things in the mix there. It's more prevalent in the apparel space. So, you know, you can see Nordstrom has uh the rack stores and they have u in the United States last chance stores which are another tier uh for handling reverse merchandise.
But um uh and apparel retailers and footwear retailers will look at um you know trends in the marketplace to uh vintage apparel stores um Poshmark, Fashion File, um you know uh platforms like these that sell secondary apparel. But the real question to answer is, you know, running that kind of business is a whole separate business. Is that the retailer's primary mission or isn't it? And those that conclude, well, yeah, you know, they're taking a run at it and they're varying degrees of success, but it really is a separate business to properly disposition all that product. Some of it can be sold, some of it should be donated.
um you know in the in the sense that Nancy was talking about um but you don't see those kinds of examples in the general merchandise space. Okay, Nancy, what about you? You know, what's the perception of retailers who are participating in these these programs and and some of the challenge that they're faced with? You know, I think uh along the lines of of the things that John talked about, um there's a couple things that are really come into hyperfocus when when retailers work with us. One certainly on the circularity side, consumer from the consumer side, the consumer perceives that as a positive, as them taking a step forward as really trying to be mindful, socially mindful and and helping the consumer on the path.
the the retailer is the front line for the consumer, right? They don't they don't they care what the brands are doing, but if they're shopping at a certain retailer, they want to know that that retailer is doing something. And so there's that side of it. The other side is internal actually. So what what we can be created with programs like ours is employee engagement, which is critical because they're also your front line as an entity in the store. So they're the ones working with the consumer. They're the ones getting your brand out there. And so if they're engaged and we create opportunities for them to be engaged, you know, John talked about the employee who's in the back trying to figure out what am I doing with all this stuff?
Well, if they're packing it up and putting it in a box to ship to an organization like ours, they're like, "This is so great. I'm doing something amazing with this." I can then also have an opportunity to volunteer if there's a time of disaster locally or if there's a school that's in need or a community or whatever it is. I can go out and actually distribute this product to those people that are in need and I feel good, right? And so I think there's a full circle moment internally and externally for the organization as well as you know to John's point they are all reporting on this. They're all talking about what they're doing in the in the circularity space.
And so you know most of our partners can and do publicly report this is what we're able to donate. This is how much impact we've made. this is the result of, you know, these are the number of families that have been helped. These are the communities that we've helped both locally and and internationally. So, it's a very positive opportunity for retailers, for sure. With a very low lift. Yeah, that's that's great to hear. And and John, who from your perspective, what what are the retailers who are doing a good job of this? Um so u you know I won't mention um you know the specific names of retailers but um but there are you know a lot of big retailers that have big organized programs but there's also a lot that don't.
Those that do um you know have big organized programs there's a few characteristics to that success. You know, to NY's point, very often it's ended with an aha moment where somebody at the sea level has realized that they're not managing returns effectively. a lots going into landfill and very often um it comes from voice of the store associate surveys that um you know I remember one retailer who will remain nameless in in particular where there was a comment that the CEO saw that a store associate said it is soul crushing to destroy all this product and the CEO said well what do you mean you know and dug into it but but those that are effective have consciously designed programs um that are designed and managed centrally.
Uh they leverage all the right resources in their company without leaving it to the stores to figure out. They have partnerships with organizations uh like NY's with companies like the ones that u I used to run. There's a store level playbook that keeps it simple. This is what retail perfect means. Put this back on a shelf. If it's not retail perfect, put it in this container or put it on this pallet. Get it out of the store. Um, and keep it simple for the store employees to operate. Don't be running little clearance shops in the store. These are confusing to customers. Like, am I always going to find stuff here uh or am I not?
Um, how do you price it? How do those prices relate to new goods? Are you encouraging customers to buy something and return it so they can see it in a clearance aisle for a cheaper price? Um so um you know all those issues are effectively managed when the retailer gets you know a big uh properly organized program in place and measure the metrics you know to NY's point include the metrics in their sustainability statistics include the donations in their philanthropy um statistics and include the return in their financials and then you know they're really getting all the stars that they could get in a in a properly designed program.
That's great points. Nancy, retailers from your perspective are doing a good job. Obviously, they're they're a lot of them are your customers. They are. We do. We have a really great roster of partners. Um I I will share the story of um our partnership with DSW um Shoe Company in Canada. Um you know they've been long-term partners with us and the reason that the partnership started actually was several years ago, many years ago. Um they did a consumer survey, you know, sort of inquiring and and how's it going and you know what would drive you to purchase more, you know, as every retailer wants to do.
And the feedback was, you know, we just have a lot of product in our closets now and and so, you know, what do we do with that? Can you help us solve that problem? And that's really where it stemmed from, you know, and so this partnership was created to figure out, okay, how do we get the product, the returns again, you know, from the consumer but also at a more scale level and help drive more traffic. So they have gone out and said okay you know we've seen that this has driven more traffic. The the relationship has blossomed so that you know it's at scale in all stores. We used to um you know have everything shipped to one location.
Then we figured out okay we could actually ship it to a variety of our locations. And you know the the consumer has gotten engaged, the employee has gotten engaged. We've even gone as far now as there's pretty regularly consumer and employee trips that go with us to see where the product is actually going and what's happening to it, which is pretty amazing. And now for the last couple of years, we also have a roundup campaign at the register. And so it has become a holistic partnership where the consumer feels like, yes, this makes sense to me. You're a shoe company. This is a shoe organization.
All makes sense. They used to have different partnerships and different things across the years, but now it's a very holistic and it feels like everybody's bought in, everybody's engaged in it. And so I would say they're doing a really excellent job and now having it actually as part of their strategy. So it is actually strategic. We sit down once a quarter and have a strategic conversation about okay, what do we do together? What works better? What is the consumer responding to? We've got a big campaign going on right now with them. So it's a it's a very holistic and integrated into the business side of it because for us we need to be commercially viable.
We recognize yes we're a not for-p profofit but the people that we're working with are forprofit and so for them at the end of the day it also has to be commercially viable. So you talk about that commercial viable you know what are the challenges when you're going out and promoting this circle economy and this model. What are the challenges? You know what what's the push back you get from retailers? Number one and by far and away is shipping and logistic cost, right? I mean, that's that's the bottom line. It's the cost of how much is it going to be to get it from us to you? Do we take that cost on?
Do you take that cost on? How do we work all of that out? It is the number one. You know, our organization does not love when I say this. I always say that we're probably a logistics company first because we're moving so much product around all over the globe. But it's the truth. I mean, that's yes, we're help we're helping, right? But the behind the scenes would be warranty because all this movement and that's a that's a big cost, right? And so figuring that out and and trying to to work through that, that's the biggest thing. How about John? When when you when you talk to retails about the issues, what what's the push back from them?
Um, so primarily three kinds of uh push back JP. Um, one of the top issues we hear where there isn't a program in place is it's not a priority problem. We've got more important work to do. Um, you know, yeah, we're just we're focused on our core business. That reason only holds until um you know the story hits a media organization or lands on page three of a newspaper saying retailer XY Z is sending this much product to landfill and then it becomes um an emergency. But um what Nancy called out is um is sort of the second reason and probably the one we hear the most. It's too costly to run a reverse program.
And that really goes to how the program is designed. If you touch the product too much, if you sort it and parse it too much, if you store it too long, um all of those things get in the way of recovery. Um well-run and welldesigned programs generate a financial return. Like that's a fact. But if you handle it too much, if you sort it too much, if you Yeah. you you're just creating cost. Um the third thing that we hear um which and and there's really no data backing it up, but brand integrity concerns. Um and you'll hear it in the luxury product space. If we liquidate this product, we're going to do damage to our brand.
Um, you know, if we want to donate it, I'm sure NY's heard the story before, I'll donate this product in North America, but you got to get it out of the United States. You got to get it out of like you can't that's right do anything with it in North America. There's there's really not only no data to support that fear, but reverse logistics operators have tons of brand protection things they can do to provide assurance around that. But there's also the question JP that you mentioned at the outset that consumers want to know that the retailers first and foremost but also the brands behind them are good stewards of the economy and that they're they're behaving responsibly.
So the brand integrity issue I I do still hear it um a fair bit, but it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you when you dig into it. That's it. Nancy, any thoughts on that? Any additional thoughts? I I would agree. We hear all of those often. Um, you know, the the last point in particular, the moving product out of not not only just out of the country of origin where it's sold, but you know, being mindful of distributors or franchises or other relationships. Um, that that's a that's a very big one for us indeed. um we face that often. So we have to we have to work within those parameters.
Um I will say what I've observed um over the last few years and particularly since co people have gotten a little bit more relaxed on that last piece because there has been so much need right there was so much need during that time and for some reason it feels like there's heightened disasters happening all the time right whether natural or man-made. And so I I think there's there's also this social awareness not just in circularity but in how do we help humanity period and so I think retailers and brands are much more receptive to yes let's figure out what the best good we can do with this product is rather than destroying it or throwing it away when there's so much need out there.
Is there any further partnerships? I mean obviously you have apparel, shoes, those are prim a lot of that ends up in landfills even before it hits the stores but are there other industries that would benefit now you know John you talked that it was those two categories but what about hard goods what about you know other industries do you see the same level of importance on this you know reverse logistics or is it strictly the fashion shoe industry, John. Um, so, uh, I see, um, I see this really across the retail categories. Um, probably the the most, um, you know, most effective big retailer reverse programs are in the general merchandise retailers that that handle everything and including grocery.
and grocery is a whole separate challenge um for reverse but there's effective solutions there as well. Um the I would say probably more of the challenges around the brand integrity push back like I don't want to be handling this come out of the apparel space um luxury apparel um you know we all hear criticisms of the fast fashion industry but um you know apparel can be successfully managed in the in the reverse economy and the circular economy it can be successfully sold. This is a challenging economy. There are people that need to buy at those price points that you find in well merchandise liquidation stores.
Not to mention the the all the drivers of donation type disposition that Nancy was mentioning. Well, that's interesting that you raised that because when you look at, you know, the middle class is being hollowed out. Uh, in North America, we're seeing a significant growth in pro poverty in in, you know, food stamps, growth of food stamps, uh, people on welfare. Uh, we're seeing a significant increase in North America. Obviously, this would solve some of these issues. Nancy, how do you deal with that, you know, in those in those markets in in the US where where they're depressed? Um, you know, where you've got the underbanked uh lower incomes, a lot of people on welfare.
What role does your brand play there? So, quite a large one. One of the uh programs that we launched was a few years ago now. Um, we're going into our third year. It's a program that we call for every kid. for every kid is to put new athletic shoes on the feet of every student across the United States and actually now in Canada um experiencing homelessness. So in in the United States particularly and that's kindergarten through 12th grade we have north of a million and a half students that are experiencing homelessness in some form. They're unhoused. Wow. Um it it came about because we work closely with food banks, we work closely with shelters etc.
That's where we sort of connect and help to distribute. Um and you know we kept asking what's the greatest need? Naturally we understand shelter and food um water of course. What's the greatest need after that? What's you know what's the thing that you keep getting asked for that you don't have? And time and time again the response was choose for these students. The younger ones can't get to school or participate in sports or, you know, whatever activities they need to do. The older ones, if they don't have closed shoes, they can't work. They can't support their families. And so, you know, we were like, well, I mean, this is what we can do, right?
This is so easy. What how did we not know this? Of course, it's not easy. But, you know, we're we're now our mission is to by the year 2031 get all of those students a pair of shoes. Um, we work with brands, we work with retailers, we work with other entities, organizations, homeless shelters, homeless communities, um, you know, federalmandated programs across to really do that. And so, to date, in the two years, we've been able to distribute 300,000 pairs and grow, right? So it's it's a big need but that's our contribution into that area. Fantastic. So just I just want to start wrapping up. Uh so when you look at obviously the complexity of this challenge but also the cost and the benefit.
What would be three strategies or tactics that retailers people on this call could take tomorrow to benefit? And I'll start with you John and then I'll have Nancy also. Sure. Well, um I think the first thing is really effectively measuring the returns that flow into an individual store or group of stores. If you don't know what that returns rate is by product category, go measure it. Um and as soon as you're measuring it, be purposeful designing a reverse program that achieves the retailer's brand objectives, but also the financial objectives. Um because this this is not art, it's science and you can meet those financial objectives.
You can also meet donation objectives. Those aren't binary onoff kind of decisions. I think um secondly uh don't ask the forward logistics process and team to handle reverse. have um a separate team within the supply chain organization that um takes that design and implements processes to make it work. Very often when the retailer just leaves the supply chain team or the store t store teams to figure it out, it's like a disaster not waiting to happen. It's a disaster that is happening. It's a hell pile in the corner of the warehouse. that's product that should be getting back into the economy.
Um and then you know um lastly and to your point earlier when you were talking about retailers setting up uh clearance stores um you know there's an old Jack Welch clo quot quote that um uh that always resonates with me. Um, if something's not your core business, then don't divert your focus over on that. Find somebody else who does that as their core business. Give it to them, demand their best, measure it continually, and fine-tune as you go. Um and uh you know the best performing retailers on their reverse can talk to how the process is uh functioning with the same kind of metrics they use in the forward.
So those would be my three strategies. Good point Nancy. Yeah I I I uh echo all of that. I you know I think for us what I would offer up um in addition to that is when you think about the resource that can help you right that if this is not in your lane and you find the resource a group like us for example one of the things that we've taken on recently is to be able to actually take in all products so whether it's customer returns whether it's excess whether it's damaged etc and process it for these retailers and then say okay this can go into reuse use. This should be recycled or really this has truly reached end of life and so it may go into a waste to energy program or something else.
This is the work that we do and so we can help you take that off of your plate. You don't need to deal with it. We're even going as far as we're testing with some groups on then the other side of it. So aside from our own programs, could we create a resale site for you? Could we help you manage all of the afterlife? And so, you know, that's all just to say if it's not your lane, find somebody who can do that for you and and alleviate that and it'll be much more cost-effective at the end of the day, right? Um, and I think really understand your inventory position and where the goods are. We often get phone calls of, "We had no idea this was in our warehouse.
Can you take We can't give you a list. We don't know what it is. Can you just take it?" You know, we're like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, yes, we can do that." Right. Um and then I think the third and and probably most important is what is your consumer telling you? Right? That is the main driver of your business. If you want to grow your business, you need to listen to your consumer. You need to your core consumer is going to tell you if they want a program like this if they want you to be the front line of doing better and helping more. And so you have to listen to them as you know the example of DSW where the consumer clearly said, "Yeah, I'm happy to buy more, but I need you to take some from me.
What can you do to help me?" Right? And so I think those are really the three big opportunities. Yeah, I think those are great. I would I would add that you know creating a branded program around uh that that that commitment is really important uh because it shows commitment to the employees to the shareholders u you know to the communities that that organization is committed to minimizing landfills and and optimizing returns for the for the for the good of society. That would be the first thing. The other thing is that I think leveraging communication you know you know retails are you know the a retail operation is a a group of buyers who are under one banner uh and they all fight for that shelf space and that marketing visibility and all you know and you skew counts and all that.
It's it's to work with them to understand that we also need a voice at retail um to communicate these commitments and that voice is as important as the sale that's going on for those garments or other community sponsorship events. I think that it's really really important to get that visibility at retail because we know that through our study circle economy that consumers are expecting that from retailers. are looking for that for from retailers you know to be the leader in that uh circle economy and driving and reducing waste and then I think the third thing is a human thing and that is you know talking to the heart of consumers and retailers you know showing what does all of this change management and this new approach what does it actually benefit how does it benefit and being able to show the humanistic side of that benefit of having those kids wear those shoes that are homeless, uh, having that entrepreneurial young person starting their business.
I think once people can connect the vision of what this does to humanity, it's a lot easier to buy in the the the steps they're going to have to take to make that happen because there's always going to be challenges and hurdles. And I think being able to visualize the end result, the humanistic result, I think has a lot of power. Wouldn't you agree? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, I think into my past and organizations that I've uh um worked in, organizations that I've ran in the past 15 years, um one of their channels is to sell merchandise at wholesale. And to NY's point, I'm always amazed at the budding entrepreneurs that will buy pallets of merchandise to set up a little maybe an online business.
Maybe they're using a corner of a friend's store or a family member store and they start building a business that, you know, creates employment and income for them. And you know, there's just no end to the positives um you know, above and beyond all the great positives of, you know, that Nancy explained of getting shoes to kids that don't have them. Like that product exists in this reverse flow. Um you know, we can get that product whether it's sold or it's donated into the hands of people that need it. Great. Let's open it up to see um those attending the session. There's a Q&A at the bottom with a question mark if you've got any questions.
Uh you know, we're opening it up to any questions that you have. You can ask Nancy or John. While people are considering that JP, one thing I'd throw out there that we haven't touched on, if there are retailers on the call or brands on the call that want to learn more, there is an um an organization out there called the Reverse Logistics Association or RLA, which is affiliated with the National Retail Federation in the US, the US equivalent of Retail Council of Canada. and and it's all about the circular economy and reverse logistics. Um, and retailers participate, brands participate, and and service providers participate.
Well, it doesn't look like we've got any questions. Uh, so I want to thank Nancy and John for taking the time out. Uh, we are going to be sharing this uh podcast uh video podcast and al also audio podcast in the next coming week. uh so please look uh you'll be receiving a link to this presentation. I want to thank both of you uh for spending the time with us and sharing some insights on what is a huge issue. Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you.
